For over 20 years Boris Blum, CEO of My-CEO has worked as a counselor to successful CEOs and Founders of privately held companies helping them navigate challenging times. He has been called by some as the “CEO Consiglieri”, working as a business turnaround expert with a significant emphasis on Family Businesses and their unique challenges. In this episode you’ll hear that there is no monopoly on good ideas, that collaboration gives you the ability to make better decisions, and that a clear purpose and passion for what you do allows you to focus on the journey not just the results. For more information visit: https://my-ceo.com
Larry Olsen: Welcome. I'm Larry Olsen, and what's on your mind? Once set, it delivers your life. To change the outcomes we want, we must change the plays we’re running. Join us at Mindset Playbook with Real people - Real talk for Real insight.
Narrator: Today's episode is sponsored by Aperneo, An Achievement Acceleration Company, whose approach to professional development enables clients to gain insights and perspectives to live, work, and engage with more success.
Larry Olsen [00:00:05] And so that should have shown up on your side, did it? Yeah. Good, good. Well, without further ado, then let's kick this thing off. All right. And I want to welcome everyone to Mindset Playbook. And thank you for taking the time and making the choice to be a part of what you're going to be experiencing today. My guest today is Boris Blum, and for over 20 years now, Boris has worked as a counselor to successful CEOs and founders of privately held companies, helping them navigate through challenging times said as we are all experiencing now. He has been called by some as the CEO Consiglieri, working as a business turnaround expert with the significant emphasis on family businesses and their unique challenges. Boris holds a Masters in Financial Services excuse me. He is a certified financial planner and holds numerous professional designations from the American College and Oxford University. Helping self-motivated and growth minded CEOs and business owners make a positive qualitative difference in their life is his passion. He states, there is no monopoly on good ideas. Collaborating gives you the ability to make better decisions with confidence. He believes in keeping leaders accountable and reminding them that it all starts with why. A clear purpose and passion for what you do allows you to focus on the journey, not just results. Consistent progress, not perfection, is necessary to maximize profits. So welcome Boris and thank you for being on my show today.
Boris Blum [00:01:55] Well, thank you, Larry, for having me on.
Larry Olsen [00:01:57] You're more than welcome. You know, tell us more about what you mean by consistent progress not perfection is necessary to maximize profits and improve, improve the quality of our lives.
Boris Blum [00:02:11] Sure, I'll take a stab at this from the perspective of a CEO. Most CEOs that start their businesses start with some kind of technical expertise. They were really good at doing something and they've turned that into a business and oftentimes they're perfectionists in their skill and tree. And so, they expect obviously people that are part of their organization as they grow to do exactly the same thing is keep that level of quality standard really, really high. The unfortunate part is that that is not there is everything that there is to business, right? Business has to generate a profit. Business has to come in the door and there's got to be a sales and marketing effort that's built out. So, all of these other things get in the way of delivering this stellar experience that they want to create for their clients. And so they start getting focused on perfection within the operations of their business. And as you scale, it's not just your efforts, it's the efforts of the people on your team and people are messy. They're not they're not machines. They don't deliver consistency as we'd like them to do all the time. And so, this level of perfection that they're experienced, we're trying to experience becomes a real stumbling block for them, and they get very frustrated with their role of the business growing. They get unhappy why their entrepreneurial journey is not as smooth as they'd like it to be. And they have a difficult time sometimes dealing with the people in the organization and in trying to get them on the same page in terms of the quality of what they're trying to deliver because they are perfectionists in their technical trade. And when I talk about, you know, progress, not perfection, I tell people sometimes 80 percent is good enough, you know, it doesn't need to be absolutely perfect. What you do need to have is an absolutely perfect experience for the client. See, the client doesn't actually know if they're getting 80 percent or 100 percent. Most of the time, their 80 percent experience is way better than what they've gotten anywhere else. And so. Good point. I think a really good perspective on what you expect your people to deliver and the consistency of what you're trying to deliver and not over thinking it, can allow for a much happier work environment for the people that are involved. Relieve a lot of stress for that CEO. And certainly, I think the experience for clients is going to be just as good as they would have expected, if not better.
Larry Olsen [00:04:50] So how do you that makes good sense. But how do you go about making this? Not overthinking it occur within your client, so that. You can have more of more productive and rewarding environment for these associates to work in.
Boris Blum [00:05:14] Mm-Hmm. Well, to me, it all comes down to execution, right? We're trying to execute on the business objectives. And when you talk about execution, there is really two components that are quite important. One is communication and the other one is coordination of action. And so, if you don't, both of those things have to be addressed. If you're going to be successful, you can't do one and not do the other. And we're oftentimes people start to struggle is where they take their objectives for their business and they try to superimpose them on the policies and procedures that they've created, which are quite they're quite fixed, you know, policies and procedures. Not a flexible thing. They're not designed to be that way. And so, to create this consistency in the product delivery, they've created these policies and procedures for a reason. But they need to have flexibility in the way that they approach it. So, to get back to the communication coordination of action piece is if they have well-established outcomes and objectives that they're trying to reach, they can then take those. And with the methodology that we created internally in our business, call the CPR model, which focuses on cash flow, people, and risk. We're able to take these objectives and transform them into what we call initiatives. Other people have called them rocks. Other people have called them, you know, your quarterly objectives, whatever you want to call them. But at the end of the day, there's something that we're trying to deliver. And so, if we've clearly identified what those things are, we've communicated them well and we have a platform with which we're going to manage the progress towards those. Then people feel a lot more comfortable because they understand the role that they're playing on the team and they're clear about what's expected, what are the milestones, what are the things that are going to, you know, provide them transparency around what they're delivering? Are they successful in the role that they're trying to deliver? My belief is that people intuitively want to show up as their best self at work every day. But oftentimes leadership is where the problem is coming from because leadership hasn't communicated to them well, what is expected? They haven't provided them the tools and resources necessary to be their best self. And so, they get disengaged. And this is part of the problem we're seeing now with this great resignation. People are not fully engaged in what they're doing. And so, their productivity and execution goes down significantly. And what we're trying to do with most organizations and help them understand is how do you communicate and how do you coordinate this action so that execution is flawless? OK? Does it mean that it's going to be absolutely perfect? We're not trying to get perfection in terms of the delivery, but the actual execution of the tasks. The work product is flawless. And that's, I think, you know, more than anybody would need to be successful in a business.
Larry Olsen [00:08:25] So how do you deal with, and I told you what I want you to do. You told me you understood it. And we're not getting it done. I mean, obviously, you have gotten something going on more than that type of communication. Mm-Hmm. And and yet when you listen to that and what you're sharing, we all come up with that challenge of where that drama sometimes lies between. You know, I think you remember what Henry Ford said, right when they had all these thousands of people on the assembly line and he said, What do you think of all of this? And he said, well, why can't they just bring their hands to work? Mm-Hmm. And you know, the whole element of drama and what you said, you know, people can be messy, and I know you didn't mean that in the sense of the work that they do. Sure. But just the fact that we have a lot going on in our lives and we're not always listening to every single word that's shared. And you know, the bobblehead sometimes is the only evidence that the leader gets that they understand. So how do you guys bridge that gap? What do you do to make sure that those natural types of things that used to work are not always the best strategy at all?
Boris Blum [00:09:49] So I think oftentimes people focus on whether their team can deliver something as opposed to whether they will deliver it right. That's a very different component. And you don't know whether somebody will actually deliver until after the fact. It's, you know, it's not a leading indicator. It's a lagging indicator, right? So, organizations address this in a number of ways. The most common one is they try to focus on skills. They try to focus on past performances and indicative factor in hiring and selection and getting the right people on the bus. OK. And I think that, you know, there's value in that, but I think it's limited value, OK, because you're not assessing whether this person will actually execute, and you can try to hold people accountable to what they've said. Right? But I've learned in life that I pay zero attention to what people tell me. I only pay attention to the one thing, which is what they do. That tells me exactly what's going on. And so, with that mindset, I look at what helps people actually move forward towards the goals and objectives. And there is a couple of things there's, you know, intrinsic motivators. There are extrinsic motivators that people will use to drive themselves and understanding what those motivators are for each individual employee is vitally important because if management looks at their objectives and outcomes that they're trying to achieve in the organization, they present that to their teams and say, this is what we're looking to accomplish, and everybody does that bobbing their head. And yes, we get it. We understand, and we're going to do it and then come around the end of the quarter. Nothing has happened or very little has happened in terms of progress. Everybody's disappointed because although they've said they were going to do something, they didn't actually deliver. So, there's a couple of things to solve for this. One is if on the front end, there is a very solid buy in. In other words, you can't dictate to people what you want them to do. You want them to buy in and take ownership of it. So, if you've communicated correctly, the whole team and individually, they've all said, yes, we can and we will do this. So that's where the accountability starts. But then the second part of that is how do you coordinate action in the way that you coordinate action is you watch what people are doing as they're going. You don't wait till the end of the project to figure out that you have a problem. And so there are methodologies that you can deploy to understand. Number one, what are the individual motivators for each person, what they're trying to deliver? And when they get off a track, you get in front of them and you say, how can I help you? How can I enable you to solve the problem that you're trying to solve? I know you want to deliver. Clearly, we have a gap here. How can we solve for that? I've also found very useful in this is a coaching methodology called attention management. And there's all kinds of tension that we all have in our daily lives. There's tension that, you know, comes from our personal lives, and has nothing to do with our profession. There's tension that comes from internally within the organization and how it's being run and just the job itself. But all of this tension comes down to the pressures that cause us to act or not act on certain things. And sometimes it's just our style and what we enjoy doing that has an impact on that. Sometimes it's our level of engagement and sometimes it's purely situation. So, there is a methodology out there that I become aware of, and I really like called the change group, and it's all about productive tension management. And if you understand how to utilize the tools around that, you can assess why somebody is doing or not doing certain actions in their role and help to coach them along and say, Here's the motivators for you to be productive here. You're obviously not able to be productive right now. Here's how I can help you. And here's how you can help yourself in being more productive in this role. And if you do that, effectively, you can actually guide them into a different place, and they can actually become much more engaged in what the organization is trying to accomplish and deliver real results. Now it doesn't always work. Sometimes you realize that this person with all the best of intentions can't deliver what you're asking them to deliver. And that's where you have to make a difficult decision. And that is, you know, as I call change the people or you change the people. And so, you have to decide whether maybe there's a different role within the organization that this person is better suited for. Or maybe there isn't a role, and you have to help them actually find a role somewhere else that's better suited for what they want to accomplish in life. So that's how we try to address it.
Larry Olsen [00:14:51] How do you how does that not get into micromanaging?
Boris Blum [00:14:57] Oh, so very good question. We don't actually look at tasks. We're not trying to identify the detail elements of their day-to-day experience. We're. We're thoughtful enough about how we're doing this, that we're focused in on the activities that are driving towards those objectives. So, it's the week-to-week interaction with their supervisor, their manager, whoever it might be, their mentor or coach within the organization where we're focused on what is their accountability, what have they said that they're going to do, not how they're going to do it? It's not important what the tasks are, how they're managing their day. And this is so important to understand when you're dealing in a remote world like we are today in a hybrid environment where people are not in the office. How are you going to micromanage them? Because if you start micromanaging them at the level of technology which you can do, there are tools out there for that. I think you're going to create a very disengaged workforce. They're going to say, I don't want to put up with this, you know, and a lot of people will just say no and you're not going to get very much productivity out of them. But the better way to do it is not say we trust you, we're not looking to micromanage your day to day activity. What we're trying to understand is how we can better help you provide you the resources, the tools, the things you need to be productive in your day-to-day role and how you do the actual work is actually secondary to the equation.
Larry Olsen [00:16:28] Gotcha. Yeah, it's have we agreed on an outcome?
Boris Blum [00:16:32] That's right. And that's why we call it objectives and outcomes, because in our strategic focus with organizations, we break that down into the real outcomes we're looking to achieve organizationally. And then those outcomes become our quarterly initiatives and those quarterly initiatives then get broken down in the milestones which we can measure through KPIs at an organizational level, and they get broken down into very specific accountability steps that the individual has agreed to accomplish over a week or two weeks or five, whatever the timeframe might be towards those initiatives. And then we track their accountability, not how they're doing the work. That makes sense.
Larry Olsen [00:17:17] So how let's kind of get a little more into breaths here. Mm-Hmm. How did you get involved in this to begin with? What compelled you to want to see that there were some failings that were taking place relative to communication and things getting done that were agreed upon what took place where you said, you know, there's a better way and needless to say, you built a business around it.
Boris Blum [00:17:44] Yeah. So, around the time the last financial crash happened in the U.S. 2008 to 2009, I kind of decided that I wanted to leave my prior profession, which was primarily in financial services and working with successful entrepreneurs in that space but going into a completely different direction. I saw a lot of organizations struggling, many of them failing. And I started to address the issue of How do I help these organizations turn their business around? I saw it. For me, it was very evident what they were doing wrong, but clearly, they didn't see it. And so, I started working in the space as a crisis consultant and a turnaround expert working with CEOs, helping them with their specific challenges in their companies. And when I started doing this work, what was interesting to me was how difficult it was to institute organizational changes. You would think that in the middle of a crisis situation where your backs up against the wall, you've got all the motivators to change. You're not seemingly making the changes you need to make. And oftentimes this was not just at the organizational level, but it was at the CEO level themselves. You know, they agreed to make changes. They agreed to that this was necessary for them or they were facing financial ruin in many cases for their family and themselves, and they refused to make the necessary changes. So, it got me thinking about. What is the difference between peak performance for individuals and optimal performance? And it really made me understand that peak performance is not sustainable. OK? Peak performance is not something you should be striving for. It's kind of like that perfection, right? You're never trying to get perfection, trying to get progress. And the same thing here. You're trying to generate an environment that produces optimal performance, high performance on a consistent basis. And so, when you've got these CEOs that are seemingly have all these motivators to make these changes, they might make changes for a short period of time, but they revert back to what they're doing. And this is not just the CEO, but it's also everybody in their C-suite and all the other people in the organization. You start to see a trend; you start to see things that become patterns. And so, I looked at these patterns and I said to myself, OK, there's patterns around the problems that these organizations are facing, and those seem to be clear as day. And then there's these patterns I'm seeing about how organizations are managing change. And so, I've built some frameworks around how to address these things. So, on the one hand, the patterns about how organizations are failing revolve really around three different areas. It's very simple. I call it the CPR model. It's cash flow people and risk. Those are the three elements that if you don't get right, you can't have a successful organization or business, OK, then you're likely going to fail if those three things don't work out. Now, cash flow people who are sounds straightforward, but there's quite a bit behind that. And so probably beyond the scope of this conversation. But I'll just suffice to say, those are the three elements that I identified as problems. But then there was another area that I thought was really important, which is how do you institute change and why was change so difficult to make happen? And I really realized that there were three levels of organizational maturity. We'll call it. We've got level one, which is basically a tactical level. It's the policies, procedures, the operating systems of a company. And you can't really have a successful company if you don't at least have that level one mature down. So, most companies that I was involved in had some sort of a system, whether it was optimal or not, but they had something at that level. But level two is where things start to fall apart. Level two, for me, was strategic and strategic is all about, reinventing yourself in the middle of a crisis, right? This all came from the crisis context. You saw organizations all use COVID as a perfect example for this, right? So pre-COVID, you had a business plan, a model you're executing to. Things are working well. COVID hits. And now your business has changed completely. How quickly you can make that adaptation. How quickly you can reinvent your business is going to determine success or failure because everybody has a runway that they have to deal with financially. And if you run out of runway, you're in trouble. So, the strategic layer is very, very important. This level two strategic layer. And so, what I identified was the problem was that the strategic layer needs to be flexible. You have to be able to pivot in your business at any given moment because you never know when a COVID is going to happen to you. Right. And so the idea was, well, if strategic is flexible and level one is not flexible, it's all about being rigid and policies and procedures and systems and consistency and all of that. How do those two things work? Because there's natural friction between what you're trying to do strategically and what people are trying to execute to on a day-to-day basis each and every day so that we built a framework for this called the BOSS system. It's called Balanced Operating Systems and Solutions. It's a way to assess and scale a business over time. And so that the level one to level two creates friction and you have to understand how to address those strategic things. But the most important layer, in my view, is the third layer. It's Level three and a Level three mature company is a company that actually understands that culture is what's most important. So, culture is what drives the organization. It drives the strategic alignment within the organization. And more importantly, in a crisis context, it is exactly the determining factor whether you will succeed or fail. And the reason that is quite simple. If you go to a CEO and you say you have a leadership team, if tomorrow you ran out of runway, you no more, no more money in the bank, you can't write the checks. Nobody gets a paycheck. How many of those people would show up on Monday morning to work? That's the question you need to think about, right? How many people in your organization are tied enough to their job to what they're doing and day to day work, they really believe in the future of the organization. They're going to be there. That's really, important. And that's a cultural discussion. It's not a financial discussion.
Larry Olsen [00:24:42] It's kind of a sobering question, isn't it?
Boris Blum [00:24:46] Yeah. You know, and usually when you pose that to a CEO of a small to medium sized company, they just kind of have that deer in the headlights look. And I've never thought about that before.
Larry Olsen [00:24:56] I'll bet.
Boris Blum [00:24:57] So that is, I think the real thing that we're trying to accomplish is we're trying to get organizations to be level three mature in terms of how they operate, where they have that strategic alignment, they have that cultural factor going.
Larry Olsen [00:25:13] Let me ask you this being in the culture business myself, you brought up something very interesting, but I didn't get an answer to it. And I don't know if that was because of time. But this change element here, we're not doing well. We've got some great coaching and mentoring from you and your organization. We know what we're supposed to do, but we refused to do it. You know what, my intrinsically drives me. You know, and you've done your analysis yet you're still unable to move me forward, and I'm a critical part of that organization. I'm just not somebody that you can easily replace. Mm-Hmm. You know, I have my ideas of help you, how you assist somebody in change because it is, you know, the number one fear of mankind. Actually, it's number two. Rejection is number one, right? We want at least we feel like we're included, then I'll deal with change or not. What have you seen kind of greases the skids, if you will, and allows these people, to go through that fear to face the fact that, you know, this will be OK and just because I rode this horse and we've been successful up to COVID and he used it as a great metaphor, whatever COVID happens to be taking place in our life. How do you respond to that when you just doggone it can't get me to change?
Boris Blum [00:26:49] Oftentimes, I find that comes down to one word trust. OK? It's about whether you have the trust in the organization. You have the trust in me as a leader, you know, and many times because that's the role I might be playing in that equation. But all of those things are vitally important because you might have motivators that would drive you, but you don't trust that you're in the right place to be able to be vulnerable, number one about that can share it, but also you don't trust that the organization is maybe heading in the right direction. I think a lot of times leadership tries to dictate as opposed to going from a bottoms-up approach and actually trying to discover what are these issues? Because oftentimes the people at the lower levels of an organization have a better sense of what's actually going on, you know, and in a crisis context. When I was working as a crisis consultant, one of the first things I did was I would talk to the people that were serving the clients in whatever the business was because they knew the skeletons. They knew what was going on. That was problematic and needed to be solved. So, it's having or building that level of trust that they can share with you what is holding them back from being fully engaged in what they're doing and delivering their best self and then figuring out whether they're really a potential, you know, fit for the organization? If long term, you might be a valuable person and I don't want to let you go. But if this is not the best place for you and we come to that conclusion, I should actually be able to help you find a new role that is a good fit, whether it's within or outside of the organization, you know. And that's the level of trust you have to get to.
Larry Olsen [00:28:45] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, there is a collaboration that has to occur. You know, I really got to want to change or no matter how intelligent or whatever sophistication is, these new opportunities have it. It's not going to matter. Mm hmm. And that's when those tough decisions need to be made. But like you said, you put it in a beautiful perspective, and that is that let's find a fit where you can optimize your talents and what and who you are and what you bring to the party. That's a wonderful way to deal with it, because it's unfortunate that too many are so quick to just remove and replace. Mm hmm. And all they've done is created somebody else is going to ultimately have to deal with the same challenge again. And they haven't learned how to how to get through it themselves.
Boris Blum [00:29:37] Well, sometimes you know, the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know, right? Yeah, yeah. Why would you cut the cord so soon and not give that person an opportunity or every opportunity you can to really be successful? Because the cost of acquiring talent is not insignificant and the likelihood of making a mistake is pretty good? You know, even for the best organizations.
Larry Olsen [00:30:01] So yeah, and it's worth revisiting the culture, the existing culture. That's right. It's worth unless you're revamping that entirely to which I'm sure you had to do at times as well. Mm hmm.
Boris Blum [00:30:13] Absolutely. Yeah.
Larry Olsen [00:30:16] You know, we've unfortunately run out of time, and it seems like we're just getting rolling here. I. I wanted to just get you to share a little bit more about. Let's take a look at it and talk to the listeners which you have been more specifically to. A lot of people right now are in the reinvention process, and they are also a lot of people are gaining power that they didn't have before and in the not having to work for wages that weren't life sustaining and whatnot. But they're all going to have to change if anything's going to change in their lives. And it's a big word and it creates a lot of fear, and it creates a lot of procrastination because what if it doesn't work? You know, and I mean, at the other side of it as well, what if it does? And it seems to me that this question you ask if you show up and I can't pay people anymore lists the people that are going to show up on that day when no paychecks exist is it's really revealing in the sense of perhaps giving their attention to we can't continue on this track. Mm-Hmm. But what can you leave our listeners with in allowing them perhaps a tool that they can use to help them manage these stumbling blocks that they seem to be facing that would require them to make a change within themselves and how they perceive what's needed to be done?
Boris Blum [00:31:51] Well, I think there's two totally different components you might be bringing up. One is at the organizational level, so I'll address that. I think it's very important for any organization to have a very, very clear vision and purpose what Simon Sinek would call a just cause. Because if the organization doesn't have that and hasn't communicated it well, there's really nothing for the employee to attach to it other than the paycheck. You've basically taken the value equation out of everything, and you've basically said this is just a job. It's like you're selling a commodity. You know, what's the lowest price for the company and what's the value here for the employee? Very little, if any. So, I think the organization has to have that component fixed first. Secondarily, I think for the individual, if the person aligns with what the organization is trying to accomplish, if they enjoy the industry in the work that they're involved in and they can see their role in the organization's success, the compensation factor becomes actually a very easy thing to solve. Hmm. You know, I don't think compensation is actually that important in the equation. Not that you can't. You know that you have to pay obviously a wage that's not just a living wage, but a market wage that makes sense for the role that you're trying to fill. But I think it goes beyond that. The individual knows that there is a market wage that they can earn, whether it's here or somewhere else, and they're not really interested in just the wage discussion. They're interested is what is my future discussion? Where do I see myself? They might be involved in a role that they absolutely don't like doing. You know, maybe they're working in accounting, and they want to be doing marketing. Yeah. Well, that should be something you can discuss with them and understand their perspective and see if there is a role within the organization that they can aspire to getting into. It's not to say that you would take an accountant and put them in the marketing department, right? But if that's really where their passion and purpose lies, is there something within the organization that would fit that passion and purpose? And if not, then you know, you have a different conversation to have with that individual, but that individual is trying to do something in their life that's meaningful for them. If you don't understand what that is, you're likely going to find out that they're not going to be there very long because the paycheck somebody else will also pay. So, it's a question of what is that meaning to them?
Larry Olsen [00:34:38] Yeah. So, somebody is in a bad relationship at home and a change needs to occur. Mm-Hmm. What would your suggestion be for that type of change?
Boris Blum [00:34:51] I don't know if I have an answer for that, because I don't consider myself an organization of psychologist and certainly not a clinical psychologist, maybe better suited to answer that. But I think change in general is hard for people. Nobody likes change, necessarily. Very few people do. And I think what ends up happening is you have to make a decision is this is staying more painful than going. Mm hmm. Right? Yeah. So yeah, you might have aspirations to do something different. But if the pain isn't quite there, sometimes people will just, you know, stay where they're at. And I think that happens in both professional and personal situations.
Larry Olsen [00:35:36] You bet. You know, and in it, I think it gets back to the reference to Simon Sinek and what you're just cause. What's the ultimate outcome that you'd like to have in this relationship to begin with and in? Is that possible? And, you know, if the answer is absolutely not that you've made a wrong decision? Mm hmm. And it's time to make the right one and to do it with as much dignity and respect as you possibly can, because there's not really any fault here. The fault occurs by not doing anything.
Boris Blum [00:36:10] I would agree with that, absolutely, because the change has to occur
Larry Olsen [00:36:14] and neither one of us are clinical psychologist.
Boris Blum [00:36:17] Absolutely.
Larry Olsen [00:36:20] Well, I apologize for running out of time. I really enjoyed having this conversation, and I know our listeners have found it very interesting and that for the business people, they're listening out there. How do they get a hold of you and your organization?
Boris Blum [00:36:36] Sure, they can go check us out on our website, which is my-ceo.com. They can email me at Boris, boris@my-ceo.com. Any one of those or you can find me on LinkedIn and send me a message any way you like. I'm there.
Larry Olsen [00:36:55] Beautiful. Beautiful. Well, I appreciate your time, and I thank all of our guests for listening to our listeners. Paul, thank you for our listeners for listening. You had a lot of choices and really grateful that you chose to listen to us. I would really follow up and get more information from Boris because he is just a ton of valuable information if you're looking to be more successful than you currently are. So, thank you again for your time, Boris, and we're going to have to do this again because I think we just peel the onion a little bit.
Boris Blum [00:37:33] Absolutely. I appreciate any time you like. I'll be glad to come on.
Larry Olsen [00:37:37] Thank you. So, I thank all of you and remember, no matter what situation you find yourself in. You are in the absolute best time of your life, which is this moment now. And as long as you have the vision, just make the choices necessary to be able to get you staying on track. So, all the best, and we look forward to our next visit. Thank you. So, hang on, I'm going to stop the recording here.